Or would you? That depends on the culture, I suppose.
Ancestry.com seems similar to Geni, as they both gradually engage you to enter more information about yourself and your family, and then finally your email address. Unfortunately, that’s when they lost me with all the bulk email. Great engagement, but they came on way too strong after that. Remove.
Great article, and something I need to consider regularly for landing pages and Web applications.
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a list
Isn’t it ironic that you write an article on sign-up forms, but the platform that you use to host your article requires one to register just to write a stupid comment!
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Rod Cater
An earlier post indicated “make a movie” now wants a Yahoo ID (which I forgot I had), but the next step takes you to another form for creating a Jumpcut ID! The final insult is the site crashes both Camino and Firefox on my Mac (G4, OSX 10.4.11). I hope this isn’t indicative of where Yahoo’s other ‘services’ are going, because it feels like the Microsoft purchase has already been consummated.
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Mike Rudy
Ironic? No, not at all.
I actually consider the design of this comment system to be an example of good design. Yeah, it has a signup form, but you were allowed to read the article and all previous comments without a login, no?
When I go to Jumpcut – http://jumpcut.com/ – and click Make A Movie, I’m taken to a form on Yahoo. This seems to be the worst of both worlds. I’m taken to a sign up form on a totally different site. Only after reading all the fine print do I understand why I’m signing up for a Yahoo ID to use Jumpcut.
Why is Jumpcut used as the “good” example in this article?
Thanks for the article! I agree with it that we shouldn’t just put in a contact form where we could have some information about our site. Funny, though, when I went to sign up for this website, what was I greeted with? A form! :)
One post mentions Drop.io as a service you don’t have to sign up to. I had thought that one of the points of Drop.io was that it didn’t collect user information. The lack of sign up is therefore a function of what the site wants to do rather than an example of a slick UX (I have to say it is quite a slick UX too)!
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Ben Dog
Great article, but I’m not sure the Jumpcut example stands ground anymore.. If I go on Jumpcut the first thing I see is a big “Register” button… kind of goes against the idea of the article.
Even worse is that if you click on it you’re then taken to a completely differently branded page for a Yahoo login (with hardly any preceding mention of some connection to yahoo services)… I find that worst than the Google Videos example.. in a way..
When I went to tripit. I looked at 3 different pages in Tripit before I realised I dont need to sign up. After being conditioned to signup for services, when something offers me a service without any “effort” it is difficult to do at first. Hopefully such offers become more common. But for now, it is “disconcerting” at first even though very useful.
I would love to see this article go more into specifics of implementation strategies. In my daily work, I deal with various sign up forms constantly and would love to create some type of demo to convince the bosses that this approach is best for our apps.
Personally however, I will either have to code my own site (after investing time that I don’t have), or wait until Joomla gets a clue.
I fully agree, which is why I try to make signup forms short, sweet, and only requiring the info that is needed. Also, allowing access to an application before signup is a new trend that people seem to be implementing. Using session data to “save” work and letting the signup process “cleanup” later is a great idea. I’ve used this in my recently launched “StreamStory”:http://streamstory.com/ tool.
I have to agree with this as it concerns new sites and services. The number of times I found myself exploring a site, only to learn it requires a sign-up to really get to the goods (example goods anyway), are countless. In other words I will not sign-up to register with a site unless I’m damn sure I want it. I will not sign-up, then determine if I’m interested – I must have the interest and understanding first. My loss? Perhaps. The site’s/service’s loss? Almost guaranteed.
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Janos Hardi
I think a stress upon the fact that creating user accounts and profiles are different things is missing from the article. This fact is a key to build a nice and quite simple sign up form. Not so long ago these were the same :)
As of the paired example with Google vs. Jumpcut. Jumpcut is what is her name stands for: with a user account you can create and share videos, thats all. Google offers more, I think, thats why they ask more at the entry level.
I really liked this article, especially because you describe something I hope to see more often when surfing myself.
However, I still think that in many cases (mine) a short sign-up form’s simplicity outweighs the effort and forethought required for the type of gradual engagement you describe. Especially temporary sessions and accounts can be worth a lot of work, that could be vested in making the user eager to sign up and providing the smallest sign-up hurdle possible.
Currently were going through this type of problem with a client and they think that their form is the answer to all their problems. They want the form to answer every question that they will have for a user even though they don’t know all the questions to ask.
It’s a nightmare to say the least. It’s hard try to explain to a client what how and the form should work.
Hopefully this article will give us a little ammo for the next meeting.
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Nilesh Walmik
It is indeed a nice article and clearly demonstrates the bugging issue of Signup forms. But it misses some issues –
1.)A better approach to kill signup forms is OPENID. This article has not mentioned it at all.
2.)Second thing is, when I tried to comment on this article, I was served a “Create an account ” form first and then comment later. I think Alistapart.com should itself try to implement
what has been said in this article.
Nilesh, I disagree with the practice of using OpenID for anything other than a blog – so I don’t think it is really relevant in this article. Centralizing our information and consolidating it may make things seem simple or easy, but really what is your identity on the internet? If we hold all this info in one place, it could be compromised more easily and used against use in a more horrific way. This scares me because it is like giving out an ID card – something a person shouldn’t need on the internet but I fear it will happen soon anyways.
I agree with the idea of this article though. It is annoying to have to give up so much of your info just to see how something works. I would like to apply this in some of the projects I have in my future.
This seems like a great idea, but collecting personal data without age verification (13+) is illegal in the US. Also, having played with geni a little bit, quite a few people have felt like they’ve been spammed, since there’s little indication that they’ve actually signed up for anything.
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Luke Wroblewski
As folks continue to bring up OpenID, I’ll re-iterate: single sign on solutions also have the potential to remove the need for sign-up forms. However, they have yet to become widely adopted by the majority of Web users (hopefully this changes over time), and they only resolve the issue of user identification. Single Sign-on solutions don’t let people experience applications and services before requiring them to authenticate.
The point here is that the initial experience with a Web-based product can be used to engage new customers and illustrate what a service offers and how it works. User authentication doesn;t meet that goal.
Similarly, keeping sign-up forms short (while a very worthwhile pursuit) doesn’t address this point either. The fundamental problem is we have a tendency to treat people as record in a database. That’s what the sign-up form is: an output of the fields in a recordset that uniquely identify a user. This is not how people think of themselves and their relationship to product or service. So while we can make sign-up forms shorter and we can try to spread single-on sign solutions, the bottom line is we are concerned first with the recordset, and second with the person coming to our site or service.
I genuinely feel there is an opportunity to do better.
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Jonathan Baker-Bates
@John Josef and others:
With respect, I think you need to understand more about OpenID before you accuse it of “centralising” information. OpenID is a decentralised identity system, which is why I and many others use it. I did not, and never would, use a single sign on system for anything other than a closed network for precisely the reasons you state.
I don’t think there’s a one size fits all about when to present the user with registration. The comments to the article suggest this – some prefer to sign up straight away, some would rather do it last.
Luke is spot on when he keeps bringing us back to understanding the user’s goal. I’m sure he would agree that the best way is to base your design on a distillation of both the user’s needs AND those of the business. Balancing those needs should yield a form which:
– has not too many fields for the user and not too few for the business, and
– doesn’t ask for registration too early for the user but doesn’t miss out on valuable information about the user.
In my model of the “4 Cs of good form design”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form/” – which maybe of interest to some readers – it is essentially a problem of “context”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form/#contextual” and “conciseness”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form/#concise.
Also, as noted by a number of commenters, the problem is not necessarily that sign up is required but rather that the site doesn’t communicate well the with user. Expectations should be managed through “clear”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form/#clear information about what the application can and can’t do, what is and isn’t available with registration and what registration information is used for.
The fourth “C”, “cleverness”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form/#clever , rears its head as well. If a site remembers the things you’ve done while testing it, then registration can be relatively seamless.
So the solution is maybe not to kill off ALL web forms but rather to use a model like the “4 Cs”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form to ensure they are well designed, just like any other form!
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Sean Goff
that signing up for things stinks in the long run. Just now I signed up to post on this site, and I had to fill out another form. Some of the information you give is for demographics, and others are just plan stupid. I was going to sign up for an AOL account and they asked me to supply my phone # and address. I stopped right there because I know that if I finished who knows what kind of stuff I would get in the mail from AOL.
I wanted to comment this, and after attempting I actually had to sign up. Hahahaha. I was going to say, I’ve seen sites lately where I don’t need to sign up, but it asks for just my name and a link. I would prefer all sites like that.
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Matthew Derby
Great excerpt, great discussion – I look forward to reading Luke’s book. My comment is, as Jeffrey Zeldman pointed out earlier, slightly off-topic as it relates to commenting/posting rather than testing out web services, but since the registration issue keeps coming up, I thought I’d toss this in to the discussion.
I am currently doing some ad hoc research around the effects of registration on the volume and relative value of user-generated content. I agree with others here that the inclusion of a minor registration barrier should elevate and enrich the discussion – at least that’s always been my hunch – but I was recently referred to the following article that suggests that registration actually dilutes quality discourse:
http://blog.topix.com/archives/000106.html
Has anyone else here witnessed the phenomenon described here, where the absence of a registration barrier actually generates more and higher quality responses from users? If this is true, then the only benefit of the registration barrier benefits the business (potentially less spam to comb through).
The vast majority of premium content sites that allow commenting and voting ask for, at minimum, a registration via email address and a password before users can submit content. But does the fact that everyone’s doing so make it a best practice? We strive in all other ways to reduce the amount of administrative debris we present to users, but in this case we seem to agree that it’s worthwhile to derail them from the completion of their task.
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Friend of Users
Registering before you can comment helps encourage a higher level of conversation and discourage (although not eliminate) spam. For these reasons, such registration has become best practice and industry standard on sites that allow readers to post comments.
Although a common, I wouldn’t call it best practice. This doesn’t bring any value to the users who just want to post one comment, it can even discourage from posting. The way this site does it is to make users enter a username and password, but without requiring an email address for confirmation. This doesn’t stop spam, and doesn’t stop multiple registrations, so why not just let users comment directly, and only require to enter a “type this word” function (with an image showing scrambled letters) to prevent bot automatic posting?
Hi,
Excellent post. But how could you ever sign up to a new GMail account without providing any data? I think sign up forms will still exist even in 20 years…
Reading some of the comments on here about “ooh… it was an article about signup forms and we had to signup to comment, how ironic / ALA get your house in order…” etc… strewth!
Ok, as an occasional reader of ALA articles (usually from a google link – I long-since learned to trust ALA articles) I just decided that it was about time I signed up, so I can take part in the discussions. I was required to enter a username, password, and my name. Email and URL were optional but I gave them anyway. Bish-bash-bosh and I’m signed in. It’s not like they are asking for my biometrics! A few simple fields filled in and we are good to go.
Furthermore, surely the ALA process is exactly what this article was about? You get to read some excellent articles on a wide range of subjects. You get to read the comments that people make. If you want to comment, you are informed that you will need to sign up. The sign up process is simple and doesn’t even require email address. By reading “you need to sign up to post comments” you know exactly what benefit you will get from signing up. From reading articles and comments, you know exactly what you are signing up for. Seems to me that ALA have got it bang on with this!
The other thing, as I said I am an occasional reader of ALA. Now that I have taken the next step and signed up, this has introduced a new level of my relationship with ALA, which means I may be more of a regular than before – with increased benefits for myself and (hopefully!) ALA.
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Ben Kendall
I was just about to comment on this myself.
The entire point of the article was to let the people that come to your site actually see what they get out of membership and then have an “information as needed” sign-up form. ALA is a perfect example of this.
On the other hand, there are cases where there must be a sign up form for something to work right. Timo points out a good example with webmail, something that does actually need a sign up before you get to use it, but still there should be something like screenshots and maybe a video of some actual use with a dummy account that people can see before deciding to sign up for an account.
The key is balance, letting users get as much of a taste of your service as you can before you actually need to have them sign up to avoid things like malicious use of your service. You also need to balance what you ask for, a webmail company does not need my name, age, address, social security number, height, weight, age, birthplace, first pets name, and a contract to give them my firstborn child, etc… It needs Name, ID, PW, and maybe an alternative form of contact (snail mail or phone number) in case you forget your PW and need to reset it. Let me do a job search without being a member of your site though, and if I like your search methods I’ll join, rather than force me to join before I even see a readable screenshot of your search page.
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Mark Field
I see this as useful methodology in my direct marketing work. I market to potential new medical plan customers for my Medicare clients. Standard method is to mail them an info kit and drive them to our micro-site to answer a short questionnaire, check a box to ask for an outbound quote call, etc. or ask for sign-up forms. Medicare is scary, and I see this as a way to make it warmer to the prospect (age 64+, in terms of Web familiarity and comfort). Seems like it could only lessen the rate of abandonment in those sign-up forms.
I read this article and found what it had to say rang true in a number of cases. However, there are sites where the details of a member need to be checked before access is given. One way to check that is to get the information required in a sign-up form. the account is created but not validated until the site moderator can check the validity of the applicant.
This is a different area to ‘web services’ this is really very specialist, data sensitive web communities. Ensuring the quality of members before they gain full access goes some way towards protecting existing members. It also improves the quality of experience once they have registered – opening doors to new content and new features. Whilst providing good content and useful experience for those who do not wish to register. I admit this is not perfect but for some sites it is essential.
The one thing I found disturbing about this article was the blanket approach it advocates – all sign up forms must die. this is not true and not wise.
The most annoying thing in a sign up form is mostly the capture. Sometimes the letters or numbers are so weird deformed that it is not possible to read them. And if you enter the wrong code and the form is reloaded sometimes all the entries you have done before are deleted. These captures really must die!
I will admit I am completely of a mind with you on gradual engagement – and you will see this approach in our ecommerce experience at Seatwave… (wait for it) …but:
- why don’t you publish numbers? I am constantly bewildered by aspiring thought leaders propensity to expatiate an opinion without providing numerical evidence of why it matters, for example:
Did Google’s signup process have a higher conversion rate to singup or did the other website’s? Your opinion’s nice and fine, of course…
I will state categorically that 100% of businesses that succeed pay attention to numbers – and 100% of those that don’t (well, ok 99%) completely fail.
Jeffrey—I definitely take your point about desiring a higher order of discussion on ALA, but OpenID might actually encourage that at this point—since it would make it a lot easier for those of us with OpenIDs to get in and focus on the comment we’re thinking of making before having to register.
I guess my point is that they’re not mutually exclusive. You can still offer registration as you already do, but for those with IDs stored elsewhere, you can make it easier for us to get up a running—and to prove that we’re from a certain URL/web address.
Jeffrey—I definitely take your point about desiring a higher order of discussion on ALA, but OpenID might actually encourage that at this point—since it would make it a lot easier for those of us with OpenIDs to get in and focus on the comment we’re thinking of making before having to register.
I guess my point is that they’re not mutually exclusive. You can still offer registration as you already do, but for those with IDs stored elsewhere, you can make it easier for us to get up a running—and to prove that we’re from a certain URL/web address.
Good info with clear examples.
Only a few visitors will ever register on a website.
We are now discussing how to make our “Free Trial” as simple as possble. We need some basic info: email, url, username.
But can we ask more? Like company name, real name, country.
As mentionned, OpenID should be an option avoiding to register on our website. OpenID will get more traction as he organisation is getting into marketing thigs now.
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Marat Ryndin
Agree 100% with most of the article, however, using Fidelity MyPlan as an example shows that the author did not take the time to understand what it actually does. In the case of MyPlan it’s not a sign up form, but a way to collect some basic info in order to proceed. Without that info MyPlan simply cannot be used and since you can’t have a talking computer ask users a few of these basic questions that was the most fun, visual way they could have done it.
This is a very good article. I strongly agree with the author. This is a big help when I interact with business clients. Thanks for this wonderful tip! Keep it up!
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Cool Byte
Cool article, I agree with the author as sign up and sign in processes are boring! I can point you to another site (http://www.webyam.com) that allows you use its services without sign up and sign in!!
I came across this post after seeing it referenced on another site adactio.com (1) The most elegant sign up form I have seen so far doesn’t look like a form…rather a simple fill in the blanks. Very non threatening, concise and quick.
Any doubts were disnmissed about the effectiveness of this form when I asked an 83 yr old Grandmother to sign up. Not a single question nor problem.
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Rochelle Pennington
The website examples used in this article were for free online services. I don’t like sign up forms either and would like to get straight to the point….but does not having a sign up form apply to services that cost money? (say, a monthly price) Would this confuse and “trick” potential customers into thinking that there is no cost..until we asked for them to pay a couple hundred bucks after they’ve gone in, used our product, and is ready to share with the world?
I’d like to make a comment on one of the earlier statements.
Rochelle is asking a very good question about how to deal with using fewer forms in the case of paid services.
In my opinion, a big part of the internet business community is already moving towards making more and more free material available to their customers to generate trust and demonstrate both quality and concern toward them.
So far, the only remaining “price” for users is the signup form, which, indeed, seems like the bare minimum in the case of a paid service oriented website.
But ultimately, isn’t it conceivable to deliver the same free material without even asking prospects for an email?
1- If the material is really good, prospects will come back for more and then it’s only fair to request that they give some information, which is necessary anyway since they require a paid service and become actual customers.
2- wouldn’t such a system attract even more potential buyers?
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Kalle hansson
This article is about what this comment function is not about?
- Why do I have to sign up to comment an article?
– Why can´t I start writing before i sign up, like the article says?
– When I have signed up I have to find my way back to the article I wanted to comment?
– But on the other hand, what I wanted to say is that I would be frustrated with thw video service who says “create your movie” and the wants me to register before I can use it (ie publish it). It didn´t say “create movie and sign up”. But now I have put in effort and time to make this movie and are left with the choice of throwing my work away or give them my details and more time…
Bad idea.
80 Reader Comments
Back to the ArticleKevin Davison
Or would you? That depends on the culture, I suppose.
Ancestry.com seems similar to Geni, as they both gradually engage you to enter more information about yourself and your family, and then finally your email address. Unfortunately, that’s when they lost me with all the bulk email. Great engagement, but they came on way too strong after that. Remove.
Great article, and something I need to consider regularly for landing pages and Web applications.
a list
Isn’t it ironic that you write an article on sign-up forms, but the platform that you use to host your article requires one to register just to write a stupid comment!
Rod Cater
An earlier post indicated “make a movie” now wants a Yahoo ID (which I forgot I had), but the next step takes you to another form for creating a Jumpcut ID! The final insult is the site crashes both Camino and Firefox on my Mac (G4, OSX 10.4.11). I hope this isn’t indicative of where Yahoo’s other ‘services’ are going, because it feels like the Microsoft purchase has already been consummated.
Mike Rudy
Ironic? No, not at all.
I actually consider the design of this comment system to be an example of good design. Yeah, it has a signup form, but you were allowed to read the article and all previous comments without a login, no?
Mike Shmoe
Drop.io is another great example of a registration-less service
Cecilia Illes
I just found this site, I’m impressed, the information is really great.
Dave Tufts
When I go to Jumpcut – http://jumpcut.com/ – and click Make A Movie, I’m taken to a form on Yahoo. This seems to be the worst of both worlds. I’m taken to a sign up form on a totally different site. Only after reading all the fine print do I understand why I’m signing up for a Yahoo ID to use Jumpcut.
Why is Jumpcut used as the “good” example in this article?
Dragolux Drake
Thanks for the article! I agree with it that we shouldn’t just put in a contact form where we could have some information about our site. Funny, though, when I went to sign up for this website, what was I greeted with? A form! :)
wil waldon
Great article! I totally agree that sign up forms must go the way of the dodo!!!!
The silly thing is that i had to fill out a form to make this comment ;)Luke Wroblewski
As some of you have pointed out. Jumpcut changed their flow since I wrote this portion of the book. Chances are they had good reason :)
For posterity’s sake. Here is a link to the original process: http://www.digital-web.com/images/articles/pkg-des-8.gif
thanks~
Simon Griffiths
One post mentions Drop.io as a service you don’t have to sign up to. I had thought that one of the points of Drop.io was that it didn’t collect user information. The lack of sign up is therefore a function of what the site wants to do rather than an example of a slick UX (I have to say it is quite a slick UX too)!
Ben Dog
Great article, but I’m not sure the Jumpcut example stands ground anymore.. If I go on Jumpcut the first thing I see is a big “Register” button… kind of goes against the idea of the article.
Even worse is that if you click on it you’re then taken to a completely differently branded page for a Yahoo login (with hardly any preceding mention of some connection to yahoo services)… I find that worst than the Google Videos example.. in a way..
mmmm?
Divya Manian
When I went to tripit. I looked at 3 different pages in Tripit before I realised I dont need to sign up. After being conditioned to signup for services, when something offers me a service without any “effort” it is difficult to do at first. Hopefully such offers become more common. But for now, it is “disconcerting” at first even though very useful.
Greg Wolkins
I would love to see this article go more into specifics of implementation strategies. In my daily work, I deal with various sign up forms constantly and would love to create some type of demo to convince the bosses that this approach is best for our apps.
Personally however, I will either have to code my own site (after investing time that I don’t have), or wait until Joomla gets a clue.
Phillip Harrington
I fully agree, which is why I try to make signup forms short, sweet, and only requiring the info that is needed. Also, allowing access to an application before signup is a new trend that people seem to be implementing. Using session data to “save” work and letting the signup process “cleanup” later is a great idea. I’ve used this in my recently launched “StreamStory”:http://streamstory.com/ tool.
Mike Cherim
I have to agree with this as it concerns new sites and services. The number of times I found myself exploring a site, only to learn it requires a sign-up to really get to the goods (example goods anyway), are countless. In other words I will not sign-up to register with a site unless I’m damn sure I want it. I will not sign-up, then determine if I’m interested – I must have the interest and understanding first. My loss? Perhaps. The site’s/service’s loss? Almost guaranteed.
Janos Hardi
I think a stress upon the fact that creating user accounts and profiles are different things is missing from the article. This fact is a key to build a nice and quite simple sign up form. Not so long ago these were the same :)
As of the paired example with Google vs. Jumpcut. Jumpcut is what is her name stands for: with a user account you can create and share videos, thats all. Google offers more, I think, thats why they ask more at the entry level.
spare me
ok … soooo .. i want to make a comment (on another article) and what am i confronted with? A SIGNUP FORM.
great.
bye.
Ruben Arslan
I really liked this article, especially because you describe something I hope to see more often when surfing myself.
However, I still think that in many cases (mine) a short sign-up form’s simplicity outweighs the effort and forethought required for the type of gradual engagement you describe. Especially temporary sessions and accounts can be worth a lot of work, that could be vested in making the user eager to sign up and providing the smallest sign-up hurdle possible.
drew stauffer
Currently were going through this type of problem with a client and they think that their form is the answer to all their problems. They want the form to answer every question that they will have for a user even though they don’t know all the questions to ask.
It’s a nightmare to say the least. It’s hard try to explain to a client what how and the form should work.
Hopefully this article will give us a little ammo for the next meeting.
Nilesh Walmik
It is indeed a nice article and clearly demonstrates the bugging issue of Signup forms. But it misses some issues –
1.)A better approach to kill signup forms is OPENID. This article has not mentioned it at all.
2.)Second thing is, when I tried to comment on this article, I was served a “Create an account ” form first and then comment later. I think Alistapart.com should itself try to implement
what has been said in this article.
John Josef
Nilesh, I disagree with the practice of using OpenID for anything other than a blog – so I don’t think it is really relevant in this article. Centralizing our information and consolidating it may make things seem simple or easy, but really what is your identity on the internet? If we hold all this info in one place, it could be compromised more easily and used against use in a more horrific way. This scares me because it is like giving out an ID card – something a person shouldn’t need on the internet but I fear it will happen soon anyways.
I agree with the idea of this article though. It is annoying to have to give up so much of your info just to see how something works. I would like to apply this in some of the projects I have in my future.
Adam Freetly
This seems like a great idea, but collecting personal data without age verification (13+) is illegal in the US. Also, having played with geni a little bit, quite a few people have felt like they’ve been spammed, since there’s little indication that they’ve actually signed up for anything.
Luke Wroblewski
As folks continue to bring up OpenID, I’ll re-iterate: single sign on solutions also have the potential to remove the need for sign-up forms. However, they have yet to become widely adopted by the majority of Web users (hopefully this changes over time), and they only resolve the issue of user identification. Single Sign-on solutions don’t let people experience applications and services before requiring them to authenticate.
The point here is that the initial experience with a Web-based product can be used to engage new customers and illustrate what a service offers and how it works. User authentication doesn;t meet that goal.
Similarly, keeping sign-up forms short (while a very worthwhile pursuit) doesn’t address this point either. The fundamental problem is we have a tendency to treat people as record in a database. That’s what the sign-up form is: an output of the fields in a recordset that uniquely identify a user. This is not how people think of themselves and their relationship to product or service. So while we can make sign-up forms shorter and we can try to spread single-on sign solutions, the bottom line is we are concerned first with the recordset, and second with the person coming to our site or service.
I genuinely feel there is an opportunity to do better.
Jonathan Baker-Bates
@John Josef and others:
With respect, I think you need to understand more about OpenID before you accuse it of “centralising” information. OpenID is a decentralised identity system, which is why I and many others use it. I did not, and never would, use a single sign on system for anything other than a closed network for precisely the reasons you state.
Jessica Enders
I don’t think there’s a one size fits all about when to present the user with registration. The comments to the article suggest this – some prefer to sign up straight away, some would rather do it last.
Luke is spot on when he keeps bringing us back to understanding the user’s goal. I’m sure he would agree that the best way is to base your design on a distillation of both the user’s needs AND those of the business. Balancing those needs should yield a form which:
– has not too many fields for the user and not too few for the business, and
– doesn’t ask for registration too early for the user but doesn’t miss out on valuable information about the user.
In my model of the “4 Cs of good form design”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form/” – which maybe of interest to some readers – it is essentially a problem of “context”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form/#contextual” and “conciseness”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form/#concise.
Also, as noted by a number of commenters, the problem is not necessarily that sign up is required but rather that the site doesn’t communicate well the with user. Expectations should be managed through “clear”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form/#clear information about what the application can and can’t do, what is and isn’t available with registration and what registration information is used for.
The fourth “C”, “cleverness”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form/#clever , rears its head as well. If a site remembers the things you’ve done while testing it, then registration can be relatively seamless.
So the solution is maybe not to kill off ALL web forms but rather to use a model like the “4 Cs”:http://formulate.com.au/articles/what-makes-a-good-form to ensure they are well designed, just like any other form!
Sean Goff
that signing up for things stinks in the long run. Just now I signed up to post on this site, and I had to fill out another form. Some of the information you give is for demographics, and others are just plan stupid. I was going to sign up for an AOL account and they asked me to supply my phone # and address. I stopped right there because I know that if I finished who knows what kind of stuff I would get in the mail from AOL.
Addison Kowalski
I wanted to comment this, and after attempting I actually had to sign up. Hahahaha. I was going to say, I’ve seen sites lately where I don’t need to sign up, but it asks for just my name and a link. I would prefer all sites like that.
Matthew Derby
Great excerpt, great discussion – I look forward to reading Luke’s book. My comment is, as Jeffrey Zeldman pointed out earlier, slightly off-topic as it relates to commenting/posting rather than testing out web services, but since the registration issue keeps coming up, I thought I’d toss this in to the discussion.
I am currently doing some ad hoc research around the effects of registration on the volume and relative value of user-generated content. I agree with others here that the inclusion of a minor registration barrier should elevate and enrich the discussion – at least that’s always been my hunch – but I was recently referred to the following article that suggests that registration actually dilutes quality discourse:
http://blog.topix.com/archives/000106.html
Has anyone else here witnessed the phenomenon described here, where the absence of a registration barrier actually generates more and higher quality responses from users? If this is true, then the only benefit of the registration barrier benefits the business (potentially less spam to comb through).
The vast majority of premium content sites that allow commenting and voting ask for, at minimum, a registration via email address and a password before users can submit content. But does the fact that everyone’s doing so make it a best practice? We strive in all other ways to reduce the amount of administrative debris we present to users, but in this case we seem to agree that it’s worthwhile to derail them from the completion of their task.
Friend of Users
Although a common, I wouldn’t call it best practice. This doesn’t bring any value to the users who just want to post one comment, it can even discourage from posting. The way this site does it is to make users enter a username and password, but without requiring an email address for confirmation. This doesn’t stop spam, and doesn’t stop multiple registrations, so why not just let users comment directly, and only require to enter a “type this word” function (with an image showing scrambled letters) to prevent bot automatic posting?
Peter Brown
The Doodle website (www.doodle.ch) is even better – there is no registration or login.
(BugMeNot doesn’t either! And I’m not Peter Brown)
alan mick
i think it,s a great post.
Designer Timo
Hi,
Excellent post. But how could you ever sign up to a new GMail account without providing any data? I think sign up forms will still exist even in 20 years…
Nigel Moss
Reading some of the comments on here about “ooh… it was an article about signup forms and we had to signup to comment, how ironic / ALA get your house in order…” etc… strewth!
Ok, as an occasional reader of ALA articles (usually from a google link – I long-since learned to trust ALA articles) I just decided that it was about time I signed up, so I can take part in the discussions. I was required to enter a username, password, and my name. Email and URL were optional but I gave them anyway. Bish-bash-bosh and I’m signed in. It’s not like they are asking for my biometrics! A few simple fields filled in and we are good to go.
Furthermore, surely the ALA process is exactly what this article was about? You get to read some excellent articles on a wide range of subjects. You get to read the comments that people make. If you want to comment, you are informed that you will need to sign up. The sign up process is simple and doesn’t even require email address. By reading “you need to sign up to post comments” you know exactly what benefit you will get from signing up. From reading articles and comments, you know exactly what you are signing up for. Seems to me that ALA have got it bang on with this!
The other thing, as I said I am an occasional reader of ALA. Now that I have taken the next step and signed up, this has introduced a new level of my relationship with ALA, which means I may be more of a regular than before – with increased benefits for myself and (hopefully!) ALA.
Ben Kendall
I was just about to comment on this myself.
The entire point of the article was to let the people that come to your site actually see what they get out of membership and then have an “information as needed” sign-up form. ALA is a perfect example of this.
On the other hand, there are cases where there must be a sign up form for something to work right. Timo points out a good example with webmail, something that does actually need a sign up before you get to use it, but still there should be something like screenshots and maybe a video of some actual use with a dummy account that people can see before deciding to sign up for an account.
The key is balance, letting users get as much of a taste of your service as you can before you actually need to have them sign up to avoid things like malicious use of your service. You also need to balance what you ask for, a webmail company does not need my name, age, address, social security number, height, weight, age, birthplace, first pets name, and a contract to give them my firstborn child, etc… It needs Name, ID, PW, and maybe an alternative form of contact (snail mail or phone number) in case you forget your PW and need to reset it. Let me do a job search without being a member of your site though, and if I like your search methods I’ll join, rather than force me to join before I even see a readable screenshot of your search page.
Mark Field
I see this as useful methodology in my direct marketing work. I market to potential new medical plan customers for my Medicare clients. Standard method is to mail them an info kit and drive them to our micro-site to answer a short questionnaire, check a box to ask for an outbound quote call, etc. or ask for sign-up forms. Medicare is scary, and I see this as a way to make it warmer to the prospect (age 64+, in terms of Web familiarity and comfort). Seems like it could only lessen the rate of abandonment in those sign-up forms.
Nathan Davies
I read this article and found what it had to say rang true in a number of cases. However, there are sites where the details of a member need to be checked before access is given. One way to check that is to get the information required in a sign-up form. the account is created but not validated until the site moderator can check the validity of the applicant.
This is a different area to ‘web services’ this is really very specialist, data sensitive web communities. Ensuring the quality of members before they gain full access goes some way towards protecting existing members. It also improves the quality of experience once they have registered – opening doors to new content and new features. Whilst providing good content and useful experience for those who do not wish to register. I admit this is not perfect but for some sites it is essential.
The one thing I found disturbing about this article was the blanket approach it advocates – all sign up forms must die. this is not true and not wise.
Gordon Brown
The most annoying thing in a sign up form is mostly the capture. Sometimes the letters or numbers are so weird deformed that it is not possible to read them. And if you enter the wrong code and the form is reloaded sometimes all the entries you have done before are deleted. These captures really must die!
taylor wescoatt
I will admit I am completely of a mind with you on gradual engagement – and you will see this approach in our ecommerce experience at Seatwave… (wait for it) …but:
- why don’t you publish numbers? I am constantly bewildered by aspiring thought leaders propensity to expatiate an opinion without providing numerical evidence of why it matters, for example:
Did Google’s signup process have a higher conversion rate to singup or did the other website’s? Your opinion’s nice and fine, of course…
I will state categorically that 100% of businesses that succeed pay attention to numbers – and 100% of those that don’t (well, ok 99%) completely fail.
Chris Messina
Jeffrey—I definitely take your point about desiring a higher order of discussion on ALA, but OpenID might actually encourage that at this point—since it would make it a lot easier for those of us with OpenIDs to get in and focus on the comment we’re thinking of making before having to register.
I guess my point is that they’re not mutually exclusive. You can still offer registration as you already do, but for those with IDs stored elsewhere, you can make it easier for us to get up a running—and to prove that we’re from a certain URL/web address.
Chris Messina
Jeffrey—I definitely take your point about desiring a higher order of discussion on ALA, but OpenID might actually encourage that at this point—since it would make it a lot easier for those of us with OpenIDs to get in and focus on the comment we’re thinking of making before having to register.
I guess my point is that they’re not mutually exclusive. You can still offer registration as you already do, but for those with IDs stored elsewhere, you can make it easier for us to get up a running—and to prove that we’re from a certain URL/web address.
John Stewart
Good info with clear examples.
Only a few visitors will ever register on a website.
We are now discussing how to make our “Free Trial” as simple as possble. We need some basic info: email, url, username.
But can we ask more? Like company name, real name, country.
As mentionned, OpenID should be an option avoiding to register on our website. OpenID will get more traction as he organisation is getting into marketing thigs now.
Marat Ryndin
Agree 100% with most of the article, however, using Fidelity MyPlan as an example shows that the author did not take the time to understand what it actually does. In the case of MyPlan it’s not a sign up form, but a way to collect some basic info in order to proceed. Without that info MyPlan simply cannot be used and since you can’t have a talking computer ask users a few of these basic questions that was the most fun, visual way they could have done it.
Monroe Johnson
I thought the article was very informative.
It really showed me some things that I need to keep in mind when consulting with clients.
Jemm Cellan
This is a very good article. I strongly agree with the author. This is a big help when I interact with business clients. Thanks for this wonderful tip! Keep it up!
Cool Byte
Cool article, I agree with the author as sign up and sign in processes are boring! I can point you to another site (http://www.webyam.com) that allows you use its services without sign up and sign in!!
G. Wayne Clatyon
I came across this post after seeing it referenced on another site adactio.com (1) The most elegant sign up form I have seen so far doesn’t look like a form…rather a simple fill in the blanks. Very non threatening, concise and quick.
Any doubts were disnmissed about the effectiveness of this form when I asked an 83 yr old Grandmother to sign up. Not a single question nor problem.
It’s found at http://huffduffer.com/signup/
G. Wayne Clayton -Social Marketing Expert
(1) http://adactio.com/journal/1521/
Rochelle Pennington
The website examples used in this article were for free online services. I don’t like sign up forms either and would like to get straight to the point….but does not having a sign up form apply to services that cost money? (say, a monthly price) Would this confuse and “trick” potential customers into thinking that there is no cost..until we asked for them to pay a couple hundred bucks after they’ve gone in, used our product, and is ready to share with the world?
Damien Bureau
Hi everyone,
I’d like to make a comment on one of the earlier statements.
Rochelle is asking a very good question about how to deal with using fewer forms in the case of paid services.
In my opinion, a big part of the internet business community is already moving towards making more and more free material available to their customers to generate trust and demonstrate both quality and concern toward them.
So far, the only remaining “price” for users is the signup form, which, indeed, seems like the bare minimum in the case of a paid service oriented website.
But ultimately, isn’t it conceivable to deliver the same free material without even asking prospects for an email?
1- If the material is really good, prospects will come back for more and then it’s only fair to request that they give some information, which is necessary anyway since they require a paid service and become actual customers.
2- wouldn’t such a system attract even more potential buyers?
“Honest Reviews”:http://www.HonestFreeReviews.com
Kalle hansson
This article is about what this comment function is not about?
- Why do I have to sign up to comment an article?
– Why can´t I start writing before i sign up, like the article says?
– When I have signed up I have to find my way back to the article I wanted to comment?
– But on the other hand, what I wanted to say is that I would be frustrated with thw video service who says “create your movie” and the wants me to register before I can use it (ie publish it). It didn´t say “create movie and sign up”. But now I have put in effort and time to make this movie and are left with the choice of throwing my work away or give them my details and more time…
Bad idea.