Comments on When You Are Your Own Client, Who Are You Going To Make Fun Of At The Bar?

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  1. I’m not a Designer (God I wish I was ... but I can juggle three rubber balls and I like hockey, so ...).

    I’m a developer. A code constructionist. A “head-down programmer for hire”. And I love it.

    (And, I love the fact that despite high school teachers and college professors telling me ‘you should never start a sentence with the word “And”’, I still get away with it! HA!)

    Anyhow, as you mention, it is, indeed, lucrative to write code for hire. But it’s not fulfilling nor does it create passive income.

    Thank you thank you thank you for this nudge in the right direction. I’ve tons of ideas for “developer tools” and such-like and have mentally toyed with the idea of creating them. Thanks to you, I’m now inspired to start.

    Again, thanks. Oh ... and I’m faster than Jason, no matter he thinks *wink*.

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  2. You said in your article that you sold yourself short. Why not make an article about it so that others will learn?

    I would love to read an article that would make people realize that they’re always selling themselves short, even to themselves. It is a dreadful fact and we sometimes do not realize that we do it all the time.

    I think the first rule in advertising or marketing (even encompassing self-esteem issues) should be “You are your own worst client. Sell yourself to yourself. If you can’t, how can you expect others to buy your ideas/concepts?” Ideas of self-branding come to mind.

    Anyway, this is just an idea. Maybe you can explore it and share it to the world.

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  3. Thanks for the great article, Jim.  Although focused on the business decisions surrounding the shift from a marketing studio to market-driven producer, your writing underscores another important quality your studio possesses: *passion*.

    When I had the chance to meet briefly with you at your Chicago loft earlier this year, I was struck by your fervor for top-quality products and creativity above craft.  (Jim literally jumped out of his chair to show me the new, glossier stock they had sourced for Jewelboxing, and he claimed he would rather hire people with taste than raw skills, because taste can’t be taught—I suspect his staff has both qualities, though.)

    Like his loftmates at 37signals, Jim and the crew at Coudal Partners are extremely passionate about their work, whether it be Jewelboxing, LowercaseTees or the beautiful TheShow recordings.  It’s that passion that brings folks to their blog, makes them take part in their silly contests, and creates a fanbase of excited customers and friends like me.

    Thanks again for the great article and the good advice.  Thanks in part to our meeting (an in line with the ideas expressed in this article), you encouraged us at Free the Slaves to start a “blog”: and to market our passion as strongly as we do our cause.

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  4. Being your own client is awesome. Every designer probably starts from there when he designs his own website. But not all of the designers come back to being their own clients after that. And in all the benefits described here i want to add one more - even if you’re not going to always be your own client, doing it once in a while helps to understand clients better and makes your life more rewarding and interesting.

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  5. Hi Jim,

    like Don, thanks a lot for this fueling article.

    “New tools and technology have made it much easier for small teams to run the manufacturing, financial and distribution side of things. The cost of entry for a new business can be calculated more often in hours of work than in sums of cash.”

    As an industrial designer, I would be interested in hearing the differences you found between the development of a physical product like Jewelboxing and the development of a software product like Basecamp. Is it a misconception from my part to think that it’s easier to start a business with software products than with hardware ones, cost and marketing wise ?
    You can have lots of ideas regarding hardware products and be as passionate as one could be, but when it comes to try to bring them to reality, well, there’s a lot of money to put on the table before you can have the result between your hands. To me, the nature of the tools you need is the problem, not only the time you would spend to build. For software products, the result is accessible faster, as building and enjoying the results are almost seamless (but I might be wrong here, I never worked on software products but primitive websites) and are happening at the same place.

    merci merci merci

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  6. I wonder what everyones thoughts are about keeping the business name for a product the same as the blog or seperating into another company.

    For example: Campaign Monitor and Coudal Partners.


    My Blog and My Blog Store.

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  7. I totally agree with Jim on the charging what traffic will bear as a bunch of nonsense. Working in a small market in Ohio, by that standard I’d make more at the local Radio Shack. We as creatives shouldn’t need to justify what we charge but when we do, we need to make it a value added proposition rather than a simple expense.  Have you seen what plumbers/electricians/contractors charge lately?

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  8. I was rather hoping you were going to suggest some sort of deal or coalition to ensure fair pay for web designers, like the potato-muncher you mentioned.


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  9. Been there with mister:
    Now, doing that with madam :

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  10. I’ve never bought the idea that designers who go off to start their own products is because of “passion”, and I’ve been in web design a lot longer than the author of this article.

    If you were so passionate about design, why stop doing it to produce a bunch of t-shirts or some cheap software? Why not keep designing?

    We’ve heard it all before - “I was on six figures before the bubble burst” - “my clients betrayed me” - “nobody recognizes real talent anymore”.

    Here’s the bottom line folks, and you probably won’t like it. Those of us with the requisite talent and who worked hard did very well out of your companies going bust, and continued producing the quality and functionality that our clients loved, and which your clients turned to when the chips were down.


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  11. You have a point.

    Then again, it’s a survival thing.

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  12. “Think of us the next time you’re revising the revision of the idea you presented but were sure they’d never approve. You know, the one with the unreasonable deadline and budget.”

    We don’t do that. It’s easy to get around: we don’t present bad ideas and we don’t take on unprofitable jobs. If you do, you deserve everything you get.

    As to creative freedom, I don’t believe that I’m too good for my clients. Whether they are international corporations or one-man startups, if they hire us, they get nothing less than 110% effort start to finish. It sounds from your posts a lot like you found that too hard, and quit to work for a client you knew you could please: yourself.

    Am I wrong?

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  13. Too often I see designers motivated only by the bad things and frustrations of the industry - difficult clients, long hours and so on.

    If they want to hang out with models, name-drop bands, garner a cult following, be regarded as a “guru” or whatever, then they should go ahead and do it. It’s not difficult. I used to do it but stopped because it left no time for interesting stuff.

    To be honest, if I was in your position I think I’d find it impossible to do anything useful. My motivation as an agency designer is external - the client’s needs and future. If I was only answerable to myself, I’d make a miserable boss and just bunk off to have fun all the time I reckon. What’s your secret?


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  14. Great article, I’ve been in the web design industry now for about 2 years (full time) or 4 years all up. Coming from a trade background as a carpenter I thought it would be much easier than it has been to build the foundations for a solid business, but I have to say the design/new media industry is far more complex than the building industry.

    I originally got out of the building industry because I love to be creative, and working off someone else’s plan just wont allow for that, funny thing is I’m now finding the same barriers with (certain) clients in this area of expertise (I’ve been building websites for longer than 4 years;).

    It was only the other day after talking with some associates we all started to realise we need to do more than just design for clients, we need to start producing tools that we need and that we can give to others who need the same functionality. So we have now set out a new strategic plan that will hopefully do all of what you have clamed possible in your article.

    I’d just like to say thankyou for this article, as I has inspired me to think even harder about this issue, and may just be the linchpin that has been stopping the progression.


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  15. Thanks Jim, well said.

    I think designers can use their way of working to create great product companies. However, this does involve learning a little about marketing, sales, operations, strategy, etc… maybe unpalatable business stuff folks avoided by becoming designers. As long as we’re willing to pursue career growth it’s possible.

    Earlier in the year I gave a presentation called, “Can we run the company?” that discusses this

    ...and will be giving a short workshop in October in NY to try and seamlessly combine the product design and revenue design aspects of making a product…

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  16. “We as creatives shouldn’t need to justify what we charge…”

    I’m a little put off by this statement.  If you can’t (or worse yet, won’t) justify what you charge, how do you expect your clients to justify paying you?  In every business, no matter what you do, if you can’t justify the cost to your customers then you might as well start filing for Title 11.

    Hope I haven’t taken this comment too far out of context, as I agree with the rest of the statement.

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  17. Not only, as Jason says, do you need to justify what you charge, but how about the product as well. I know people who sell things that they don’t beleive in.  This is not a good idea!The customer will pick up on this faster than you think.

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  18. Sorry, commenting is closed on this article.