Fluid Grids
Issue № 279

Fluid Grids

Early last year, I worked on the redesign of a rather content-heavy website. Design requirements were fairly light: the client asked us to keep the organization’s existing logo and to improve the dense typography and increase legibility. So, early on in the design process, we spent a sizable amount of time planning a well-defined grid for a library of content modules.

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Over the past few years, this sort of thinking has become more common. Thanks to the advocacy of Mark Boulton, Khoi Vinh, and others, we’ve seen a resurgence of interest in the typographic grid, and how to use it on the web. And frankly, the idea’s been a smash hit: a million CSS frameworks have bloomed, with sundry tools to complement them, each built to make grid-based design even more accessible to the average designer. And why not? After a few minutes of griddy thinking, the benefits become clear: designers gain a rational, structured framework for organizing content and users gain well-organized, legible sites.

However, our client had one last, heart-stopping requirement: the design had to be fluid and resize with the browser window. Normally, this would cause me to rejoice both noisily and embarrassingly. Fluid layouts are an undervalued commodity in web design. They put control of our designs firmly in the hands of our users and their browsing habits. They’ve also utterly failed to seize the imagination of web designers.

Minimum screen resolution: a little white lie#section1

Instead of exploring the benefits of flexible web design, we rely on a little white lie: “minimum screen resolution.” These three words contain a powerful magic, under the cover of which we churn out fixed-width layout after fixed-width layout, perhaps revisiting a design every few years to “bump up” the width once it’s judged safe enough to do so. “Minimum screen resolution” lets us design for a contrived subset of users who see our design as god and Photoshop intended. These users always browse with a maximized 1024—768 window, and are never running, say, an OLPC laptop, or looking at the web with a monitor that’s more than four years old. If a user doesn’t meet the requirements of “minimum screen resolution,” well, then, it’s the scrollbar for them, isn’t it?

Of course, when I was coding the site, I didn’t have the luxury of writing a diatribe on the evils of fixed-width design. Instead, I was left with a sobering fact: while we’d designed a rather complex grid to serve the client’s content needs, the client—and by extension, the client’s users—was asking for a fluid layout. As almost all of the grid-based designs I could list off at that time were rigidly fixed-width, I was left with a prickly question: how do you create a fluid grid?

As it turns out, it’s simply a matter of context.

Do I really have to thank IE for this?#section2

Faced with an insurmountable problem, I did what I do best: avoid it altogether. Temporarily putting aside the question of how to get a grid to behave in a non-fixed layout, I coded the stuff I knew: styles first for color and backgrounds, and then for setting the type.

You may already know about Internet Explorer’s well-documented problem with resizing fonts set in pixels—or rather, its utter refusal to do so. Set a paragraph in 16px Georgia, and no matter how much the user tries to increase or decrease the size of the text, it remains at 16px in IE. IE7 and onward do allow the user to scale the entire page, but simple resizing of px-based fonts is still largely verboten in Internet Explorer. So to give our users the most flexibility, we standards-savvy designers have usually opted to sidestep the pixel entirely, and have taken to sizing type with relative units, be they keywords, percentages, or my personal favorite, ems.

If you’ve ever worked with relative units such as the em, you know that it’s all about context: in other words, the actual size of an element’s em is computed relative to the font-size of its parent element. For example, let’s say we’re working from the following design comp:

styled text

An example of some basic text sized using pixels.

Nothing fancy: some paragraphs set in 16px Helvetica, an unordered list that’s been slightly downsized to 14px, and an h1 at the top in 24px Georgia. Sexy, no?

What’s doubly sexy is that one simple rule allows us to get most of this in place:

body {
    font: normal 100% Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;

With a font-size of 100%, all the elements in our page are sized relative to the browser’s default type size, which in most cases is 16px. And thanks to the browser’s default stylesheet, the h1 is big, bold, and beautiful—but still in Helvetica, and much too large. So while it’d be easy enough to slap on a font-family to fix the header’s Helvetica problem, how do we size the text to 24 pixels? Or accurately reduce the size of that list?

With ems, it’s easily done. We take the target value for each element’s font-size in pixels and divide it by the font-size of its container (that is, its context). We’re left with the desired font-size, expressed in relative, em-friendly terms. Or to put it more succinctly:

target ÷ context = result

If we assume the body’s default type size to be 16px, we can plug each desired font-size value into this formula. So to properly match our header to the comp, we divide the target value (24px) by the font-size of its container (16px):

24 ÷ 16 = 1.5

So the header is 1.5 times the default body size, or 1.5em, which we can plug directly into our stylesheet.

h1 {
    font-family: Georgia, serif;
    font-size: 1.5em;        /* 24px / 16px = 1.5em */

To size the list to the em-equivalent of 14px, we can use the same formula. Assuming again that the body’s font-size is roughly 16px, we simply divide that target by the context:

14 ÷ 16 = 0.875

And we’re left with a value of 0.875em, which we can again drop into our CSS.

ul {
    font-size: 0.875em;      /* 14px / 16px = 0.875em */

With those two rules, our sample page is looking a lot closer to the comp, and will be practically pixel-perfect after some slight cleanup. All with the help of our target ÷ context = result formula.

So after a few hours spent cleaning up relative type styling for our client, I realized I’d stumbled upon the answer. If we could treat font sizes not as pixels, but as proportions measured against their container, we could do the same with the different elements draped across our grid.

After all, it’s not “The Golden Pixel”#section3

As before, let’s start with a fairly unsexy straightforward layout:

Sure, our “design” is pretty modest. But those simple styles are draped over a well-defined grid: namely, seven columns of 124px each, separated by 20px-wide gutters, all of which totals up to a width of 988px. But hey, let’s forget about those nasty pixels. Proportions are the new black, right? Let’s get fluid, baby.

To start, let’s treat our comp like any other, fixed or fluid: before we start coding, let’s look at the design, and assess the different content areas. Thankfully, it’s a pretty short inventory.

On the highest level, we’ve got a title at the top, a content area that spreads across six columns, and some contextual information in the leftmost column. From this diagram, we can flesh out some skeleton markup that keys into our content inventory, both structurally and semantically:

<div id="page">
    <h1>The Ratio Revolution Will Not Be Televised</h1>
    <div class="entry">
        <h2>Anyone else tired of Helvetica?</h2>
        <h3 class="info">A <a href="#">Blog</a> Entry:</h3>
        <div class="content">
            <div class="main">
                <p>Main content goes here. Lorem ipsum etc., etc.</p>
            </div><!-- /end .content -->
            <div class="meta">
                <p>Posted on etc., etc.</p>
            </div><!-- /end .meta -->
        </div><!-- /end .main -->
    </div><!-- /end .entry -->
</div><!-- /end #page -->

And with some type rules applied, we’ve got a respectable-looking starting point. However, the #page container doesn’t have any constraints on it, so our content will simply reflow to match the width of the browser window. Let’s try to rein in those long line lengths a bit:

#page {
    margin: 40px auto;
    padding: 0 1em;
    max-width: 61.75em;      /* 988px / 16px = 61.75em */

We’ve used margins and padding to ventilate our design a bit, and establish a gutter between it and the window edges. But in the last line of our rule, we’re using a variant of our font-size formula to define the maximum width of our design. By dividing the comp’s width of 988px by our base font-size of 16px, we can set a max-width in ems to approximate the pixel-based width from our mockup, which will prevent the page from exceeding our ideal of 988px. But since we’ve used ems to set this upper limit, the max-width will scale up as the user increases her browser’s text size—a nifty little trick that even works in older versions of Internet Explorer, if a small CSS patch is applied.

So with our design properly cordoned off, let’s begin working on each element in our design inventory, beginning with the page’s title. In the comp, it spans five columns and their four gutters, with a total width of 700px. It’s also removed from the left-hand edge of the page by one column/gutter pair, making for a nice 144px offset. And if we were working in a fixed-width design, our job would be pretty straightforward:

h1 {
    margin-left: 144px;
    width: 700px;

Since we’re working in a fluid context, though, fixed measurements don’t quite cut it. And as I was working on relative font sizing, that’s when it hit me: every aspect of the grid—and the elements laid upon it—can be expressed as a proportion relative to its container. In other words, as in our type resizing exercise, we’re looking not just at the desired size of the element, but also at the relationship of that size to the element’s container. This will allow us to convert our design’s pixel-based widths into percentages, and keep the proportions of our grid intact as it resizes.

In short, we’ll have a fluid grid.

Everything old is new again#section4

So, how do we begin?

target ÷ context = result

That’s right: it’s the return of our trusty type formula. We can use the same proportional analysis to transform pixel-based column widths into percentage-based, flexible measurements. So we’re working from a target value of 700px for the page’s title—but it’s contained within a designed width of 988px.

the title area

Converting our pixel-based title to percentages.

As a result, we simply divide 700px (the target) by 988px (the context) like so:

700 ÷ 988 = 0.7085

And there it is: 0.7085 translates into 70.85%, a width we can drop directly into our stylesheet:

h1 {
    width: 70.85%;           /* 700px / 988px = 0.7085 */

Can we do the same with our target margin of 144px? Oh, I do so love a leading question:

144 ÷ 988 = 0.14575

Once again, we can take that 0.14575, or 14.575%, and add that directly to our style rule as a value for the title’s margin-left:

h1 {
    margin-left: 14.575%;    /* 144px / 988px = 0.14575 */
    width: 70.85%;           /* 700px / 988px = 0.7085 */

And voilà. By measuring the title’s margin and width in relation to its container, we’ve successfully translated the ratios from our grid into CSS-friendly percentages. The title’s proportions will always remain intact, even as it reflows to fit the size of the browser window.

We can even perform the same simple division to wrap up the layout for the entry itself, sized at 844px in our comp, with some 124px-wide marginalia to the left of it. For the entry:

844 ÷ 988 = 0.85425

And for the informational column:

124 ÷ 988 = 0.12551

These two quick divisions net us some percentages that we can drop into our stylesheet, fleshing out our layout even more:

.entry h2,
.entry .content {
    float: right;
    width: 85.425%;          /* 844px / 988px = 0.85425 */
}.entry .info {
    float: left;
    width: 12.551%;          /* 124px / 988px = 0.12551 */

And with that, our fluid grid shapes up a bit further.

Changing the context#section5

So far we’ve got the big content areas sorted, but we’ve yet to touch the inner area. Currently, the blog entry’s main copy and its contextual info occupy the full width of the entry, and are stacked on top of each other. But in our initial comp, the main copy inside the blog entry only spanned five columns, with the ancillary info slotted neatly into the rightmost column.

Sharp readers will have noticed that, as it’s currently designed, the entry’s body is the same width as the page’s title (700px), and the marginalia is the same width as the leftmost column we styled earlier (124px). So while we’re working with some dimensions we’ve previously calculated, we can’t reuse the same formulas: the context has changed.

main entry area

Since we’re working inside a new container, we need to use its width as our context.

Whereas before we were calculating percentages relative to the 988px-wide #page, we’re currently working within .entry .content, which is noticeably smaller. So as a result, we need to redefine our context, and work off the designed width of .entry .content as our reference point. So to define the percentage-based width of the main copy, we take its designed width of 700px, and divide it by 844px:

700 ÷ 844 = 0.82938

And for our 124px-wide column on the right, we can use the same reference point:

124 ÷ 844 = 0.14692

We can now take each of these measurements, and plug them into our CSS:

.entry .main {
    float: left;
    width: 82.938%;          /* 700px / 844px = 0.82938 */
}.entry .meta {
    float: right;
    width: 14.692%;          /* 124px / 844px = 0.14692 */

And with that we’ve finished our work, our fluid grid complete.

A note on rounding#section6

As you may guess from the lack of CSS patches above, I’ve had very few cross-browser issues with this technique.  I would highly recommend John Resig’s excellent article on Sub-Pixel Problems in CSS. It explains how different browsers handle percentage-based widths, and the mechanics by which they reconcile sub-pixel measurements.

As John explains in his article, if modern browsers are presented with four 25%-wide elements within a 50px-wide container, they can’t actually render the elements at 12.5px; instead, most will round the columns down or up as best fits the layout. Internet Explorer, as it happens, will simply round all of those sub-pixel values up, which breaks layouts.

If you’re working with sufficiently generous margins in your grid, this shouldn’t be an issue. But if IE causes undue wrapping with your percentage-based columns, reducing the target value by one pixel can help. So if, for example, our left-hand marginalia was too wide for IE (Internet Explorer), you might change your calculation from:

124 ÷ 988 = 0.12551

to a lower target of 123px:

123 ÷ 988 = 0.12449

Plug that width of 12.449% into your IE-specific stylesheet, and your layout woes should clear right up.

A grid for all seasons#section7

The above is, of course, a starting point: there are myriad other challenges that face the liquid web designer, most of which arise when you introduce fixed content (such as images, Flash, and so forth) into a fluid framework. I’ve been experimenting with a few possible solutions on my blog, but other, better workarounds are still out there.

And finally, I don’t pretend that design is easy, whether it’s fixed or fluid. But given all that we’ve achieved over the past few years—moving past tables, evangelizing standards in our companies and in our shared industry, demanding better standards of our browsers and our peers—I do wish we’d bend some of that ingenuity to break out of our reliance on “minimum screen resolution.” After all, our users’ browsing habits aren’t as fixed as our comps would suggest. I hope the promise of fluid grids has fired your imagination, and I’m excited to see how you improve on the technique. Our users will be, too.

Additional reading#section8

As you may have gathered from my introductory crazed rant digression, two passions of mine are fluid web design and, more recently, the importance of a well-considered grid. Both of these have been fueled by the following, though this isn’t an exhaustive list:

And finally, at the end of a talk I gave last August on designing for fluid grids, someone pointed out the Fluid 960 Grid System. If you’re using a public CSS framework such as 960 Grid System already, the fluid “port” might be of interest to you.

81 Reader Comments

  1. Very nice article, Ethan.

    I like clear explanations of the grid theory on the web, especially fluid grids, even if I was already doing most of what you said here.

    On a more general note, this is the type of article I enjoy most on ALA.

  2. Terrific explanation on setting up a fluid grid. I have a side project I’m experimenting with that this would be perfect for, thanks!

  3. As somebody who hasn’t ever given fluid layouts the time they deserve, I feel like this article is going to be a go-to resource when I do finally take that plunge. Of course, it’s the application of fixed elements (as you say) that really worries me when planning a site of this kind – but this is still one step closer.

    Much appreciated!

  4. It seems like everywhere I look people are saying, “Fixed with design is evil!” or “Fluid design is evil!” It’s all rather silly.

    However, the other day I suggested a person make their site fixed width (or at least max width) because it would only have been a couple css changes and it would have saved all of us faithful readers from ridiculously wide paragraphs. I was told that fixed width sites were out. Oops, sorry, I guess I didn’t realize! 🙂

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure you would never make that mistake. It was just funny.

  5. Wow, I got to say the ‘*target ÷ context = result*’ formula rocks and makes it easier for me to remember! Before this I was just lazy to do the math and simply guess the width in pixels by looking at Firebug’s *HTML* -> *Layout*, or *Style*/*Show Computed Style*.


  6. I’d give you a big fat kiss!!

    Two golden formulae. One I knew but kept forgetting (setting max-width in ems to keep legibility) and one I didn’t (T/C = R).

    Outstanding stuff. I’m off to experiment..

  7. I’m currently working on a flexible grid layout and using it to display results all arranged in the page with thumbnails (the classic search on the left-hand side plus the flexible content area with the result set).

    My issue is that my search has a classical selection of number of results per page. But with flexible layout on results area the number of results per page lost the meaning since the concept now changes from “desired number of results per page” to “desired number of rows of results per page”.

    With a set of 16 results and a 8 results per page selection might get me a page of results with 5 thumbnails in the first row and other 3 on the second, misleading the user to overlook the second page of results since there’s still place for extra results on the second row.

    It seems to me that JavaScript and calculation and optimization based on window size is the only real solution. Am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance,

  8. Hi,

    if you’re interested in flexible grids, also take a look at CSS Framework YAML (Yet Another Multicolumn Layout) and its different and more “robust implementation of fluid grids”:http://www.yaml.de/en/documentation/practice/subtemplates.html that also works in older IE versions. YAML’s layout concept is strongly focussed on flexible layouts. Here are “some”:http://www.yaml.de/fileadmin/examples/06_layouts_advanced/flexible_grids2.html “examples”:http://www.yaml.de/fileadmin/examples/07_layouts_advanced_2/fullpage_grids.html .

  9. Up until now I hadn’t got round to trying this for myself. Somehow getting from default fontsize in browsers to defining the width on divs is a hard one to make for me. Thanks for explaining it clearly in this very valuable article.

    As for rounding errors in IE. I’ve had success with using a -1px margin to sort this, adding an extra pixel every 2nd column or so. ymmv

  10. Like other people, my worry is dealing with fixed-width elements in a fluid design.
    I haven’t put much thought to it, but I’d be happy to hear about resources dealing with that issue. So if anyone has links to suggest, I’d be grateful.


  11. This is a superbly-written, clear, concise article. I doff my hat in your general direction, Ethan.

    I’m glad to see that tiresome debates about the relative merits of fixed/elastic/liquid are dying off and being replaced with practical tutorials on how to implement whatever method you have decided is best for your users.

    For more dogma-free, hands-on practical advice, I highly recommend the book Flexible Web Design: Creating Liquid and Elastic Layouts with CSS by Zoe Mickley Gillenwater, published by New Riders.


  12. Ethan,

    Great article and technique, thanks! This is the kind of thing that I’ve thought would be a good idea for ages, but never got around to working out the mechanics.

    Wouldn’t SVG be the perfect partner to this technique? Has anyone had any success with using (non-Flash) scalable vector graphics in a fluid grid like this?

  13. The term ‘fluid’ threw me off. I don’t think the grid or layout is fluid, but flexible. In my happy little world, fluid means that the content *reorders* itself with the width of the page, as in using floats.

    What is happening here is that the *width* of a grid element resizes with the screenestate, but the position of the container is fixed on the grid. The YAML examples demonstrate that perfectly.

    It does not solve the everlasting problem: you want to present your content based upon the width of readable space of a device your content is presented upon, may it be a 30″ screen or a 7″ screen.

    The cleverest trick I ever saw was a javascript switch that presented another layout depending on the size of the screen the javascript somehow detected. Not ideal either, but at least it reorders content for small screens while keeping the content readable en not presenting scrollbars.

    However, flexible grids are welcome too, especially when you want to give users the opportunity to textzoom.

  14. A lot of your initial calculations come from the assumption that the browser’s default stylesheet font-size “which in most cases is 16px”. What happens for browsers where this isn’t the case?
    Is there any reason you use % for width, but em for font-size? YUI CSS suggests that font-sizes are better declared with “percentages as the units because they render more consistently than ems” (can’t find what evidence they base that on). You may need a body{width: 100%;} like you have done with the font-size, but otherwise, what am I missing?

  15. While this is all nice and fancy and new, I think it does break some very basic typographic rules, and some minor tweaks might need to be introduced.

    First, text is easiest to read at a certain font size, certain leading, certain number of words per line with a certain amount of white space surrounding the text. I believe this is the main reason fixed width layouts remain dominant. A purely fluid layout, like the one demonstrated in this article, does not give the reader a consistent line length to font size to leading to white space ratio. As the screen resolution changes, the number of words per line decreases, as does the white space surrounding the text. I see no problem with setting a minimum width for body text — in fact setting a fixed width for body text — for this very reason.

    This certainly doesn’t negate the content of this article, but merely points out a few design or readability issues that need to be addressed for all fluid designs in general. Gives me something to play around with.

  16. Thanks very much for the comments thus far, everyone. They’re very much appreciated.

    “Jeremy”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=2#13 , thanks for the kind words. And you’re quite right. The question of dogma is one I struggled with in writing the article, and I might’ve introduced a bit too much of it when making the case for non-fixed designs. Still, as you say, the user should come first. So thanks for pointing out “Zoe’s book”:http://www.flexiblewebbook.com/ ; I wasn’t aware of it, but it sounds like a corker. I’ll definitely check it out.

    “Jonathan”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=2#14 , my experience with client-side SVG is pretty limited. For what it’s worth, most other rich media I’ve used (Flash/sIFR, QuickTime, most anything @object@-friendly) actually works fairly well in a flexible environment.

    “Martijn”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=2#16 , I agree that there are other ways we can degrade our layouts at smaller resolutions. JavaScript is definitely an option, à la “Cameron Adams’ fine script”:http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2006/01/19/, “alternate stylesheets”:http://www.alistapart.com/articles/lowvision/ might be another. Still, fluid grids make for a fine, user-friendly foundation for a page’s layout, upon which you can layer other techniques as best suits your users.

  17. I liked this article a lot. I have been using em sized grid based layouts for about 6 months now. With a little creativity and a clever use of floats you will never need to scroll horizontally to read content at any text size. There are just so many benefits that it seems odd not to do it.

    One problem though, with so many references in this article to IE6, I’m surprised at how much of your CSS contains widths, margins and padding on the same element. Guaranteed to break as we all know that IE6 has some crazy ideas regarding the box model.

    Extremely informative article otherwise.

  18. I enjoyed the article and the simple math equation you present is a great, easy to remember device for determining em values.

    The problem I have with implementing this type of solution, however, (and this goes for a lot of the frameworks I’ve seen) is that the final example works until you want to add borders and adjust margin settings to gain greater control over the white space and gutters in a layout. For example, adding a 7 pixel border to .main in this article’s example forces the .meta div to drop, ruining the layout. Since an element’s width is computed using not just the CSS width property, but also margins, padding, border, how do you implement a flexible grid like this while also controlling other properties that affect an element’s width?

  19. This is great stuff. As someone who is obsessed with grids and enjoys learning more about how to use them for design and implementation, this article and all of the comments here are awesome. Thanks everyone.

  20. “Greg”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=2#19, thanks for the comments. You’re exactly right: some typographic details may shift as the design changes in width. However, I’d suggest that a fixed width design penalizes users on smaller resolution devices, which is trading one set of legibility issues for another.

    Instead, my preference would be to start with a fluid grid, and then use some resolution-sensitive JavaScript to tweak the typography accordingly. “Auto line-height”:http://www.ollicle.com/eg/jquery/autolineheight/ is a promising-looking jQuery plugin I’ve found, but that kind of functionality could easily be replicated outside of that framework.

    “Christopher”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=3#21 , I’m not seeing any issues in IE6, and I tested the sample pages pretty thoroughly before publication. In general, as long as you avoid some of the common CSS bugs in that browser (e.g., “doubled float margins”:http://positioniseverything.net/explorer/doubled-margin.html ), IE6 should play pretty nicely. But do let me know if you’re encountering any errors.

    “Dave”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=3#22 , that’s one of the sticking points of using floats for layouts. My sample markup was pretty bare; in a production template, there might be some additional markup for the CSS to hook into.

  21. The topic is quite important and it’s good that someone has written on that.

    So many thanks to the author.

    However, the same ideas could be expressed in a couple of paragraphs.

    All that introduction about using em-s for text and much of the rest could be omitted, taking into account how well-known this ideas are. You could simply give a link about em-s and other stuff for those, who don’t know.
    It would save both your and the readers’ time.

    Still, many thanks.

  22. Ethan, I think you did a great job of explaining HOW to use ems and percentages to create such a fluid layout, as well as WHY it is important to do so.

    My problem is that my detail-oriented mind doesn’t work that way mathematically. I am all visual.

    I guess now I can do the math if I get out a calculator and am constantly considerate of the values of my parent elements now that you’ve explained it, though.

    Congratulations, you duped me into learning something useful because the language you used in the synopsis was funny.

    I guess my users should thank you.


  23. Thats brilliant! Ive always wondered how people came to these really precise measurements. 8.235128463874em always seemed to work but not 8.23512846387 (thats an exaggeration obviously…) all those years doing ratios will come in handy after all!

    as somebody that watches complete idiots using computers on a regular basis i constantly see people with only internet explorer open but in a window taking up a quarter of the screen watching them scroll left right up down. it amuses me no end…

  24. Ethan, thanks for your well-written and informative article. Rounding errors have typically caused me to run screaming in a direction opposite of fluidity, but this approach will certainly have me experimenting.

    A helpful tip for Mac users: “CSS Typography”:http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/developer/csstypographycalculator.html is a dashboard widget that will output calculated units using base size and target size as input values. The widget was created for type, but should work equally well for layout (instead of ‘base text size’ just think of it as ‘base size’).

  25. Perfect timing for this article as I was just planning on learning how to do this.

    One question that isn’t addressed (for super-newbs) – can someone point me to a great resource for learning how to work with the fixed-width elements like images and video?

    Thanks again for taking the time to write this.

  26. “Jon”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=4#31 , thanks for the widget recommendation. Looks pretty handy, but I usually make do with “OS X’s calculator”:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculator_(Mac_OS) .

    And “Jim”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=4#32 , that’s not a newbie question at all. Once you’ve squared away the fluid grid, dealing with fixed-width elements inside a non-fixed context is the other half of the battle. I’m planning “a series of blog entries”:http://unstoppablerobotninja.com/ that describe some of the techniques I’ve uncovered over the past year; alternately, if I’m very fortunate and there’s enough interest, maybe there’ll be follow-up article on the topic. Who knows?

  27. I was thinking from the title we would be treated to something on the order of the flexible version of Blueprint I saw a while back, where the pixel-width of all twenty-four grid sections had been converted to percentages. Maybe with an additional thought on how to remove the presentational markup that system described.

    Most of what you’ve described here, though, I was using a couple of years ago e.g., “CUPE Local 2045”:http://2045.cupe.ca or “CUPE’s VIDC”:http://vidc.cupe.ca and thought I was just trying to keep up with current practises.

    But, if that wasn’t the case, I’m glad to see it being delineated here, because I’ve always preferred “stretch-or-squeeze-to-suit” designs over “pretend this is a piece of paper” ones.

  28. Thanks for this article, I have done similar things myself to create fluid / resizable websites. My initial reason for using ems in this way was because if a user increases the text size (I’ve been using ems for accessible web design for just over a year now) and the rest of your grid / layout stays the same size all your carefully worked out padding and margin sizes stay the same, and it can look awful. Once I realised that I could use ems as width, height etc measurements, I started to use them.

    Your formula for working out em sizes is different to the one I use 🙂 I went with setting html to 101% and then, body { font-size: 62.5%;} which puts all the ems to be roughly the same as pixel sizes, with a decimal point between – example 16px would be the same as 1.6em – but I always come up against a brick wall when working with ems for anything other than font-size.

    I think your formula is better than mine, and will be using yours from now on! So thank you, you’ve saved me a load of time!

  29. this is all good, but hey, if i got 1680 (or wider) screen width, it still fills only about a half, why bother making it fluid?

    yes, i know it’s because of the measure it cannot be wider

    but how about adding some js in right places, so if the screen is dramatically wider, content would SPLIT into 2 columns? I already implement this concept on a few of my projects, and it works just great, not to mention it looks so fresh and unusual.

  30. First, let me heap on the praise. You deserve it, Ethan. A wonderfully insightful article on a topic that has intrigued me, yet always eluded me.

    But I can’t get behind the fluid hype. You see, my day job consists of adhering to the strict constraints of user-generated content, specifically media like photos and videos. For the foreseeable future, a 500px image will always be just that – 500 pixels wide. No wider, no narrower. Sure, Mac browsers do a wonderful job of scaling pics, but it’s just not dynamic enough across all browsers on all systems to even consider fudging dimensions. Video is better, but the same sacrifices still do exist.

    And that’s not even getting into the constraints of universally accepted ad sizes like that evil temptress, the 728×90 banner.

    Text is a gracefully fluid content type. Craigslist and W3C? PERFECT candidates for a fluid approach.

    So, until the day there is a truly viable approach for fluid media, I will have to remain a Fixed Man (a fixer?). It’s not an excuse or a cop-out. It just is what it is.

  31. “Ryan”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=4#40 , thanks so much for the feedback. You rascally fixer, you.

    And believe me, I don’t consider your position a cop-out. As I said in the article, I don’t pretend that fixed-width design is easy, or without its fair share of problems. Adding another variable on top of the myriad browser- and content-related issues we already navigate?

    Yeah, sign me up for that year-long subscription to Crazy Magazine, Marcotte.

    Still, I don’t think that fluid media (I love that term) is as far off as you suggest. In what I’ve seen over the past year, image and video scaling actually isn’t that bad on non-Mac browsers. Yes, it takes a bit of work, and maybe the solutions aren’t as elegant as we’d like. But they are workable, and can definitely be improved. At the very least, I don’t see the current challenges as an impasse; no more than the problems we’ve already solved, like getting PNG transparency to work in IE6.

    I think if more folks from our community discussed the issues that arise from media/layout scaling (like the ones you’ve encountered), we’d be better equipped to collectively address them. Like I said, I really think our users would thank us for the effort.

  32. The title is somewhat misleading. The grid layout is something look like this one. But the techniques used could be extended to design grid layout.

    Fixed to liquid? What’s holy, just px or em to %. But it should be noted using em as unit of any of layout can be troublesome coz em value is dependent on the font size defined in body tag if the unit of the font-size is using em.

  33. Fantastic article Ethan! You’ve hit upon a very susict explaination of fluid grids; something which I had previously considered a chimera of paradox and fancy.

    Though I have no critism of the article, I did notice an inconsistency in one code snippet that I wanted to ask about. I might be missing something or I might be nittpicking – I appologize in either case – but in the case-study markup, dosen’t the first following “

    Main content goes here. Lorem ipsum etc., etc.

    ” actually close the .main

    ? It is commented as being the end of .content. Likewise, what I would think is the close of .content, is comment the close of .main.

    I do appologize if this is a simple typo, but the article was so informative that don’t want to miss a drop. Thanks again!


  34. @Peter Brown
    Stupidly (IMHO), FF3 gives you no clue anywhere as to what Zoom selection is in effect. I once spent three hours looking for what I was sure was some kind of font-size inheritance issue because the font-size in FF was much larger than in IE.
    Turned out the Zoom level in FF was at 120%. Ctrl+0 fixed all. Check it out.
    If this turns out to be the case, you are not alone:
    *Why Does My Site Look So Small In Firefox*
    Roger Johansson recently clued his readers about *an FF add-on called NoSquint* that will show the Zoom level in the status bar:
    If it turns out that’s the case and you, too, think it’s dumb (IYHO), you can complain here:

  35. that must be why Opera is my main browser for now. That’s a good diagnostic, Richard.

  36. Thanks for the thought-provoking article.

    I’ve been using the fluid 960gs framework for a while – and this article would permit some useful tweaks to that. I found I could add a ‘Jello’ mold http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/jello-expo.html to the fluid layout http://www.designinfluences.com/fluid960gs/ to set up min and max widths so the layout doesn’t collapse too much or get way too wide… If anyone’s interested I can forward on a zip of the combined result (although it still needs some tweaking).

  37. With FF3 and now Safari 4 using page zoom instead of text zoom, isn’t there the distinct possibility that this sort of technique will be rendered obsolete?

  38. “Dan”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=5#50 , thanks for the comment. I’d respond that beyond its obvious accessibility benefits, page zoom is great for users whose screens are considerably larger than the design’s constraints. But what about users on the other end of the spectrum, viewing your site on an older display, or even in a non-maximized browser window that’s only fifty pixels too narrow? Page zoom is a great, awesome feature, to be sure: but the onus is still on us (and on our designs) to be as flexible as possible.

    Just to underline a point that some other folks have tripped on: fluid grids do _not_ rely on @max-width@, whether it’s set in @em@s, pixels, or even percentages. Rather, I was just using that as an example to show how the ratio calculation works. Sorry for any confusion that might’ve caused.

  39. This article is a great weight lifted. The beauty of simple math coupled with elegance, creating a balanced design.

    This is worth of a hard copy posted next to the work station.

  40. I actually use a fixed width column for my menu and a fixed height for my header, but have made the content section fluid using javascript. I found a script that gets the window size (inner size +/- scroll bars). Using javascript I then ‘re-write’ my width and max-height CSS for both onLoad() and onresize(). This allows my content area to be fluid while the header and menu remain fixed. I won’t contend that my design is the best, but it is better than it was previously (when designed strictly for a 1280×1024 maximized browser window).

  41. Many thanks. Just the sort of article I really enjoy on ALA (we need more!). Really helped me to understand the concept of relativity when coding fluid designs. Thank you so much.

  42. Taking this one step further, we can use JavaScript to auto-resize the base font-size. Making it proportional to the width of the browser window does two things:

    1) The layout’s width can stretch beyond 998 pixels.

    2) You maintain the same word-count per line of text for widths above 998px (plus or minus a word). In other words, high-resolution screens won’t suffer from ridiculously wide columns.

    Here’s a quick and dirty script I wrote to do that. Widths below 1024px will maintain a 100% base font-size, while widths above 1024px will receive a proportionally larger base font-size.

    As an example, I’ve added this script to the fluid grid example here: http://www.bionicdreamer.com/fluidgrids/final.html

    Notice that if you increase your browser’s window width beyond 1024px, both the layout and its font grows larger while maintaining the same word count per line of text.

  43. Hmmm, looks like my script got mangled by the comment system. Here’s another try:

  44. Also being discussed in “Fluid Grids on Accessify Forum”:http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13288 .

    The articles on ALA have been pretty getting pretty “meta” over the past couple of years, imho.

    But these 6 pages of positive comments and ideas accompanying show _this_ is the sort of article ALA should go back to. Widely applicable, non-hacky front-end and backend techniques which improve adaptability and usability. That’s what “people who make websites” like to read about.

    Textile is pretty lame, even compared to Markdown and others of that ilk. (You can’t put punctuation immediately after a link!) Having said that, the live preview is very handy and works perfectly.

  45. Thank you! This is something I had “half figured out” on my own and messed around with. You gave us a clear, concise description and cleared up some of the finer points for me – and thanks for the formula! That made my day!

    And I agree with previous posters who said this is the kind of article they like to see. Thanks again!

  46. Yeah, using percentage widths is a great way to maximise space. As some have pointed out, the downside can be that lines of text get very long and that isn’t easy to read.

    The use of “max-width” should solve this, but IE doesn’t support it well up to IE7.

    Anyway, one point you mentioned is the use of fixed size elements such as images and Flash.

    Flash at least can be resized using percentages: leave off the height parameter and add a “%” to the width parameter value. It will scale relative to its parent, which of course in turn can be styled using percentages in CSS.

    More info here: http://animation.about.com/od/flashanimationtutorials/ss/flashexpandwind_2.htm

    If the images are purely decorative, Flash does a fairly decent job of scaling them, even past their prime, so a little Flash image-display widget could be a solution. Of course you can use CSS % for images too, but then it’s up to the browser to scale, which can look bad.

  47. As a thoroughly math-challenged designer, I found this article well written and helpful. I was able to use it to start building a new, fluid site, and plan to retrofit the other sites I maintain to be fluid and thus more user-friendly. This is a perfect example of the web medium truly coming into its own, moving beyond a screen version of printed documents. Huzzah!

  48. If you use body {fontsize: 62.5%;} this will set the body font-size 10px. So you don’t need to calculate each time. You can set max-width: 98.8em; 988 / 10 = 98.8.
    You don’t need a calculater next to you.

  49. Sorry this is posted somewhat after the fact; my RSS feed for this thread wasn’t updating. Thanks so much for your comments, all.

    A few responses:

    “Geoffrey”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=6#56 , thanks for posting that. You might also check out “that auto-leading jQuery plugin”:http://www.ollicle.com/2007/jun/03/jquery_lineheight_flexible.html I mentioned earlier.

    “Chris”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=6#60 , great feedback on fixed-width elements. I’ve actually had a fair bit of luck using percentages on “images”:http://unstoppablerobotninja.com/entry/happy-mica/ and “Flash”:http://unstoppablerobotninja.com/entry/scratch-that-dirt/ alike; “as I told Ryan”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=5#41 , the quality loss isn’t half as bad as I would’ve thought, especially with a minor JS patch for IE.

    “Shin”:http://www.alistapart.com/comments/fluidgrids?page=7#63 , that’s only true if the element you’re sizing is still referencing the @body@’s @font-size@ —that is, if none of its ancestors have had their @font-size@ changed. Otherwise, you’ll need to reference the new, calculated value at that point in the document.

    Thanks again for the great feedback, everyone! Keep it coming.

  50. I think Fluid Layouts are simple to make.

    All we need to do is keep our mind of measurement in percentages. Thus the term, “Think in Percentage”.

    Fonts may or may not be important, but to me, they are not as important as blocks.

    The blocks are mandatory to have a percentile width.

    Restriction may be applied to make the site look prettier in targeted browsers. Such as using “max-width”, or “min-width” and added Javascript hacks to imitate the min-width for ie6.

    Additionally the best hack I seen is from deviantArt.

    It takes advantage of the overflow and display property in CSS. Thus making the Cite look very good in CSS.

  51. Just happen to notice that when you zoom in on the text using Google Chrome that the text overflows the columns? Does not happen in IE 8.

  52. I’ve been really excited about the developments on this site. From the texture atlas with sprites and background positioning, and now this! I’m here to express my gratitude for the work you are doing and to keep it up. Also, if you need any graphic work done on the fly drop me an email and I could probably help out since ALA has helped out so much.

    Thanks again! 😛

  53. Thanks for an excellent walkthrough Ethan. I used a similar approach when working on the “website for the Swedish government”:http://www.sweden.gov.se/ a few years ago. The only drawback with this technique is that, with a complex design, it tends to become rather complicated after a while. So it’s not as easy as using pixels, but for some projects it’s definitely worth it!

  54. This has been really helpful to me along with all of the other great content on ALA. I will be sure to try and use this method myself.

    Normally I never liked fluid layouts much because of having to figure out the normative numbers. Using ems as a relative number method has given me a shinier outlook on fluid design.


  55. First I’d like to say that I really enjoyed reading your article, it was very honest and encapsulated many modern web design issues.

    However to get to the point I would like to throw up the issue of tables. The reason why tables were previously loved by web designers is because they could do very simply what you had to with css. *They create flexible grids.* I understand completely why we dropped tables in favour of divs, but tables were essentially a grid framework for the internet. I know they had their downsides, but they did provide some consistency to web design. Don’t forget your past!

  56. First off, kudos on a fantastic article: well written and informative.

    After reading your article, I’m still unsure of why a designer would employ this technique as framework, outside of a direct client request. I don’t really see “minimum screen resolution” as necessarily evil. Web designers are constantly presented with a range of cantankerous situations – fluid design is just another variable, and to be honest, I don’t think fluid websites are anymore future proof than there fixed width siblings. We change them every few years anyway. Furthermore, the web community has this unquenchable desire to fully accommodate the user at the expense of design; while I clearly understand the necessity of usability and accessibility, I’m not quite sure when it becomes too sanitized, and frankly boring. I think putting the control firmly in the hands of the user is a bad idea, and has been detrimental to the other design communities: think American automobile industry. I’m not against the idea, but I think it should be employed when the situation or design calls for it, not as a framework.

  57. Excellent article, I feel like this solution has been hidden all these years because many web developers (such as myself) often tend to steer away from em’s and %’s for obvious cross-browser reasons among others.

    Will defiantly be adding this to my favorites!

  58. Excellent article. 🙂

    You have to watch out with percentages though with fluid grids, as these are not crossbrowser.

    Seem like webkit based browsers have trouble with them. Aswell as Opera. Gecko and Trident seem to handle percentages better.

    Here’s a example of a excellent fluid grid. Take a look at them in Firefox and IE and then look at them in Safari and Chrome. You can see that webkit based browsers can’t handle percentages like 25.5% that good.


  59. Excellent article. Just a quick question, is it possible to use fluid (percentage based) line heights? I’ve tried a couple of times but can never get it to work – as in, the line-height does not adjust when the browser is resized.

    Any ideas?

  60. In your HTML example you might want to look at the commenting. Even though DIV closing tags all look the same, closing tag comments does not.

    In your example it looks like you have an incorrect DIV nesting structure because the content class DIV is closed right after the opening of the main class DIV, and then the main class DIV is closed later on.

    A small issue really, in an overall very interesting article!

  61. Noticed this too. Original post by mcn:

    “In your HTML example you might want to look at the commenting. Even though DIV closing tags all look the same, closing tag comments does not.

    In your example it looks like you have an incorrect DIV nesting structure because the content class DIV is closed right after the opening of the main class DIV, and then the main class DIV is closed later on.

    A small issue really, in an overall very interesting article!”


  62. Ethan I agree with you that fixed-width design is evil but how to get away from it without using dreaded percentage tables or other methods was not always easy. Your presentation of the fluid grid is well done and makes it simple to understand and execute.

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